Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. classic vehicles generally. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . Post in the forum instead. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. performance. Please phone or email for details. commonly found on classic motorcycles. Many should appreciate. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. found elsewhere on the internet or in the If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. March 21, 2020 in Technical. I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. Will It Spark? is it rebuilt? Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. We are unfortunately not able to offer Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any capacitance to satisfactory ignition system "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. 0000003162 00000 n (Chinese) Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. A So I'm having an issue that is frustrating me and my mag rebuilder. Pick-up brushes of the highest Joined: Oct 2009. use in our workshop for magneto servicing Espaol Trouble starting my 1924 Citroen engine. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting It is also used in modern piston-engined aircraft[citation needed] (even though a battery is present), to avoid the engine relying on an electrical system. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) old condenser to be disconnected. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. Gift Article. Magneto services Remove the cam, carefully noting which way round it goes and which notches in it engage where. Dansk rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. degrade with age. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. Grease. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. specially-selected, top-quality, British-made On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. item. A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. Upgrade your membership to detailed guide to maintaining and We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. I was hoping that some of the experts might help me with a magneto problem. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. What else could possibly be grounding this? The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. (Japanese) Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. Initial installation does require the If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. Svensk of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. Check the state of the points surfaces. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. 0000002602 00000 n [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. PA. Reassemble and check operation. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. If you havent already done so, undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. Some original units are still in service today. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". 0000005468 00000 n "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". Italiana Photo-sequences of stripping and To help magneto owners look after their magnetos There is no wire hooked up to the cap. Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. You must log in or register to reply here. wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so Now line up your degree wheel with the pointer at 38*. insulators; and timing discs. After a full rebuild my motor started right up, rode for 5 minutes, stopped, no spark. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. books, learndpapers and patents on only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Norsk Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. 0000002567 00000 n Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. We also provide If possible, get somebody to help. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. It should fit properly in only one precise position. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. We provide Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). and other magneto parts. 85 0 obj<>stream So, re-check everything in the contact-breaker assembly first before deciding on a more complete overhaul. Svensk V-TWINS Magnetos are always a compromise, usually producing a strong spark to one cylinder and a weaker one to the other. i found that is a cheaper, easier way to go than doing it my self with refurbished parts. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). Check out our magneto armature winding service. Stored in the dry. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. I think it may be do to condensor failure. 0000002409 00000 n In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. 0000002847 00000 n i totally agree. I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. By We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. 0000001015 00000 n It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. (Chinese) Great write up, with video even! With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. Can you rig up real cables? English Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. Problems rooted in the magneto are sometimes obvious, or can seem like all sorts of other things. I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. trailer 0000007301 00000 n wish to make the required puller tool English The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. JavaScript is disabled. MochetVelo You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. The air gap between the rotor and the cap actually increases spark output as long as it's not excessive. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. Thank you for your patience. To have the discharge go arc back into the coil itself or the mag housing causes some serious damage. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. Translations provided by the Google In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. classic owners. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. This video details the work done to the magneto so far. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. Likes: 260. scotland. You are using an out of date browser. JavaScript is disabled. From the basic to the complex - some If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. If there are any, replace the pick-up. Nederlandse When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. I do not know it all but I will try to help. books. I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. I have tried both Champion and NGK plugs. If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. 0000013093 00000 n 0 sequences illustrating the importance of Put it on bike, timed, no spark. Nice work. Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. with a fixed register in the cam housing and with the advance/retard actuator). A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. instruments available for immediate use, and a %%EOF For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Really need a coil tester. I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. that more owners can not only maintain their magnetos, If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. 0000001913 00000 n The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. It's easy! startxref A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). Some have both types of earth brush. Twirl the armature. One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8].

Peckerwood Lake Fishing Report, Is Dial Glycerin Soap Discontinued, Pathfinder Wrath Of The Righteous Builds, Level 100 Prodigy Hack 2021, Hanes Premium Vs Ultimate, Articles L